Curse

Hunter Sharparrow · Apr 21, 2006, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Just because you still do it doesn't mean nothing was proven it just means nothing was done. Toilet or hole in the ground???

quickmonty · Apr 21, 2006, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter Sharparrow

Just because you still do it doesn't mean nothing was proven it just means nothing was done. Toilet or hole in the ground???

Don't matter as long as I have a supply of toilet paper.

As far as I can see you keep repeating the same tired argument and using the same quotes that do not prove your point but seem to support the opposite. Repeat: Nothing has been proven. When Anet takes action then you can gloat and claim you were right. Until then things are what they are which, for the time being, indicates (not proves) that you are wrong.

Undivine · Apr 21, 2006, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Str0b0 actually seems to be agreeing with us, Hunter. Agreeing on the consequences of farming, anyway. It's just that he's a prick and wants all the things we don't want to happen, happen.

I think ArenaNet is also concerned with their profit margines... they are the ones who support the servers after all, and that costs money. They are, however, making enough to maintain themselves. I'm sure they're thinking of the bottom line, but they also put their heart and soul into this project. It's the only game ANet has ever made. They don't want their game to degrade into grind (as they've stated many times). In fact, that's why a great many people play GW; because of the supposed lack of grind and more meaningful play. Look at the crap SOE did with EverQuest. They lost a lot of their popularity by taking it into the direction of grind and making everything come down to the phat lewt.

They have put some marginal efforts against farming. They nerfed Protective Bond, they made some farm locations (UW, Crystal Desert griffons) harder to farm. They seemed to have designed Tombs with the specific intend that it cannot be soloed.

There are some things they can do to completely remove the incentive for farming (while not actually nerfing soloing), but it does take a lot of code and effort to make those drastic changes.

Anyway, I'm not going to reply to Str0b0 anymore. He's clearly just trying to egg us on, and he's being unreasonable.

Stockholm · Apr 21, 2006, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter Sharparrow

Just because you still do it doesn't mean nothing was proven it just means nothing was done. Toilet or hole in the ground???

I'm just printing this thread so I will have plenty of papper and finally it will be useful.

Hunter Sharparrow · Apr 21, 2006, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Quote:

Don't matter as long as I have a supply of toilet paper.

lol. Good one.

Quote:

As far as I can see you keep repeating the same tired argument and using the same quotes that do not prove your point but seem to support the opposite. Repeat: Nothing has been proven.

Tell me how does anet saying that it's a problem when people find ways to get ten times the gold an average player can support the opposite?

Quote:

When Anet takes action then you can gloat and claim you were right.

mmm, can't wait.

Edit: So what your saying Undivine is that str0b0 is being hypocritical. Good to know.
Your right this is anet's baby and they want it to be as successfull as possible and with what anet said in the interview I can only assume the majority of players in the game don't repetitively farm and are in the situation they indicate as being unable to stay competetive with trade. As for NC-Soft, they have many games out most (if not all) of which require a monthly fee so I doubt they are concerned about making money of just GW. If they think they can make money off banning accounts so people have to buy new ones then why would they make it more difficult to farm? Wouldn't they make it easy to acquire gold to sell on ebay or where ever and increase their monitoring so they can ban more people?

Stockholm · Apr 22, 2006, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter Sharparrow

lol. Good one.

Tell me how does anet saying that it's a problem when people find ways to get ten times the gold an average player can support the opposite?

mmm, can't wait.

Please don't hold your breath while you are waiting.

Str0b0 · Apr 22, 2006, 12:02 AM // 00:02

I'm just telling you there are going to be consequences if you continue to push on with this ridiculous crusade. Just like in real life money will rise up and squash you. I'm not agreeing with you since you want to put an end to all farming which is frankly stupid. I'm just saying the only way both of our interests can be served is if Anet puts servers aside just for people like me to trade, sell and farm on and let the rest of you waste your time trying to get the drops that we get on a regular basis because we manipulate the law of averages, or if not manipulate then at least we realize that it exists and we can make it work for us. If you continue in this though soon it won't be just me a monty and our guilds and the others I have managed to recruit( a combined asset pool of well over 200 million between the people I've pulled in plus whatever monty and his crew have.) looking to make your life miserable. It will be other farmers that don't want to see our cash cows ruined. You keep sticking your hand in the fire and jerking it back just short of getting burned but if you persist things can be difficult for everyone except those of us with gold and loot. Given that soon we will have alliances and alliance storage space my dream of economic manipulation on a grand scale will be a whole hell of a lot closer to reality. But you go right ahead and keep on whining in these posts. In the meantime I'll be fighting back with the means at my disposal which, unfortunately for you, are much greater than any you can muster.I'll also be sure to credit you with sparking this movement of mine on so when people start bitching about high prices and economic collapse they can all come talk to you.

quickmonty · Apr 22, 2006, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter Sharparrow

Tell me how does anet saying that it's a problem when people find ways to get ten times the gold an average player can support the opposite?

Okay. Anet uses terms like "casual farming" and "extreme farming". I guess we would have to know what they mean by "casual" (which they seem to support) and "extreme" (which they seem to frown upon). I always thought casual farming was what I do (I might spend a few hours a week farming), and extreme farming was the 24/7 bots (which I think most of us are opposed to).

Once we have those definitions confirmed, then we can continue this discussion. Unitl then (sorry about this ..... drum roll) nothing has been proven.

Edit: And as Str0b0 points out in the next post, just those few hours a week have made me very wealthy, and quite a few of my guild members have gotten wealthy as casual farmers. Money talks

Str0b0 · Apr 22, 2006, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

Okay. Anet uses terms like "casual farming" and "extreme farming". I guess we would have to know what they mean by "casual" (which they seem to support) and "extreme" (which they seem to frown upon). I always thought casual farming was what I do (I might spend a few hours a week farming), and extreme farming was the 24/7 bots (which I think most of us are opposed to).

Once we have those definitions confirmed, then we can continue this discussion. Unitl then (sorry about this ..... drum roll) nothing has been proven.

Indeed I spend a max of 4 hours a week farming. Not extreme by any stretch and yet somehow I still have loot. I once again have to say that given that I can only really play about 4 days a week due to work schedules that means about an hour a day. That means that you too could have loot like mine if you wanted to apply yourself and stop being lazy. If you put half the effort into casual farming that you put into piss and moaning on this forum then you'd be swimming in more loot than you would ever be able to spend. Bot farming and professional farming for profit are what is really messing this economy up and yet you seem to want to villanize all of us. "Oh the big bad farmers make it impossible for me to get the vanity items I want for my character." you want to talk about cash being dumped onto the market talk to second party gold sellers and buyers not us. Like I said we sit on our loot mostly. It circulates between players, admittedly usually the same set of decent farmers but it circulates none the less. Keep on antagonizing us though and see what happens when we cease to sit on that loot anymore and when it all gets dumped at once or when we continue to sit on it and wait for resets just so we can jack prices back up again.

Stockholm · Apr 22, 2006, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter Sharparrow

If they think they can make money off banning accounts so people have to buy new ones then why would they make it more difficult to farm? Wouldn't they make it easy to acquire gold to sell on ebay or where ever and increase their monitoring so they can ban more people?

We don't know how many Bot's are being bannd daily but from reading other threads here ppl are getting bans on a regular base, some from farming to much and some from dealing with ppl doing ebay bussines. They all claime to be unfairly treated but bans are handed out and I bet most of them come back on a new account. And as I said earlier the have not done the same nerfs on asian servers as on US and EU servers. I bought an FFS 15% from a korean player and he told me they still get them from the collector and on US and EU servers that item is now only 10%, so they made it harder for us to farm with a 55 not for the pro farmers. Keep asking for nerfs and we can start buying all high end items in int.dist. because there they will not be nerfed.

Hunter Sharparrow · Apr 22, 2006, 12:28 AM // 00:28

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I'm not agreeing with you since you want to put an end to all farming which is frankly stupid

Not all farming just repetitive farming but the problem is if people can do it twice or three times when they are on then there is nothing to stop them from doing it the whole time they are on.

Quote:

Okay. Anet uses terms like "casual farming" and "extreme farming". I guess we would have to know what they mean by "casual" (which they seem to support) and "extreme" (which they seem to frown upon)

Well anet specifies by saying twice the amount of gold (casual) and ten times the amount of gold (repetitive). The twice and ten seem to be amounts thrown in as an example of what they mean so there is probably a give and take to both amounts. For example "ten times give or take 2" so 8 to 12 times. Now for me I see casual as farming maybe for 30 minutes in the 3 hours you are on and then with the loot you find you either keep, give to a friend (or guildie) or sell to the appropriate trader. What I see as repetitive or extreme aka excessive is you only spend 30 minutes in the 3 hours doing quests and missions and spending the rest farming. Then refuse to sell anything to the trader (unless you think noone will buy it which is usualy items that recieve more money from the merchant).

The seporate districts (or servers rather but that would probably cost alot more) idea is a bad one. Provided the different districts had separate economies. But what would stop the people from taking the cash flow between the districts? Wouldn't work.

Quote:

We don't know how many Bot's are being bannd daily but from reading other threads here ppl are getting bans on a regular base, some from farming to much and some from dealing with ppl doing ebay bussines. They all claime to be unfairly treated but bans are handed out and I bet most of them come back on a new account

Yeah I saw those threads too. They got their accounts back after notifying anet.

Str0b0 · Apr 22, 2006, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Ok given that we can agree upon the definitions of extreme farming we can also agree that extreme farming is bad. To me it sucks because it takes away my competitive edge in an already crowded market to you it sucks for economic reasons. As for the idea of seperate districts or servers the same thing that keeps you from swapping between regions, a limited ability to move between them. So it seems we can agree on something after all.

sh4ft3d · Apr 22, 2006, 12:40 AM // 00:40

^ Exactly what quickmonty said :P

Undivine · Apr 22, 2006, 12:40 AM // 00:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter Sharparrow

The seporate districts (or servers rather but that would probably cost alot more) idea is a bad one. Provided the different districts had separate economies. But what would stop the people from taking the cash flow between the districts? Wouldn't work.

It also wouldn't work because people want to sell their stuff. Why would they want to sell it to farmers? The farmers aren't going to buy it.

If the farmers really want to be separated from us non-farmers, why not leave GW and go play one of the MMORPGs that is designed around farming?

And the fact is, we cannot separate the casual farmer from the excessive farmer. Both of them engage in the same activity, but while one is more destructive than the other, there isn't a way to stop one without stopping the other, unfortunately.

Str0b0 · Apr 22, 2006, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Now see that's the kind of idiotic response that makes me aggravated with you. " Why not go play another MMORPG?" Umm because I shelled out 50 bucks for this one and I want to play it. That's why. Just don't even bring that up like it's a valid option again. I could just as easily tell you that if you don't like us farmers you can go play chess or some other game that doesn't involve farming at all. That doesn't make it a valid option.

Hunter Sharparrow · Apr 22, 2006, 01:01 AM // 01:01

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So it seems we can agree on something after all.

I knew we could

The question is, is there a happy medium? A solution for both sides...

Quote:

It also wouldn't work because people want to sell their stuff. Why would they want to sell it to farmers? The farmers aren't going to buy it.

I dunno, I think they might. As it stands now with the price of items being sold they are only affordable by other farmers.

Quote:

And the fact is, we cannot separate the casual farmer from the excessive farmer. Both of them engage in the same activity, but while one is more destructive than the other, there isn't a way to stop one without stopping the other, unfortunately.

That I agree with. If people can do it a little then there is nothing to stop them from abusing it. And your right, it would be unfortunate but I think it would be less unfornutate if they stopped both by having it so you need a minimum size party before entering a combat area (2 out of 4, 3 out of 6 and 4 out of 8) and return the drop rate to it's former glory before the nerfing.

I can't speak for others who don't like to farm but I think this would be a good medium. For myself, I wouldn't care to have to be in a full group (provided henchies stay as an option) but solo and paired farmers would be absolutely against that so I picked 50% of a full party. Now that would still reign in favor of those that don't farm so I add the return of the old drop rate to compensate the group forming. So it would ruin it for sweatfarmers and bots as well as other repetetive farmers while keeping it worth while for casual farmers even with the henchies. As for those that like the challenge, if they made the mobs more randomized in ways that has been mentioned that would certainly boost the challenge rating.

Str0b0 · Apr 22, 2006, 01:13 AM // 01:13

As long as farming isn't shut down entirely I can deal with it. Otherwise I have to say I'm not going to be in favor of any solution that absolutely shuts down farming.

Hunter Sharparrow · Apr 22, 2006, 01:33 AM // 01:33

I don't think it would block farming just change its form so you do it in small parties. It would be the same as SF farming but instead of greens you would be going for the same stuff as you are now. So those that farm would make money twice as fast in half parties then those that are only questing and doing missions with full parties. Twice as fast instead of ten times faster, just what anet thinks is acceptable. Casual farming without the extreme farming.

The Fox · Apr 22, 2006, 03:39 AM // 03:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

The needs of farmers should be flat out ignored. Wealth and items are irrelevant to success in the game.

Farmers needs are the same as cooperative group needs. Drops have been nerfed to nothing and everyone wants the "good old days" to come again... Golds use to drop similar to faction's beta drop rate.

BUT don't hold your breath.

Greens were introduced due to consumer demand and now the whole system is out of wack. Why? Because the SF update and the Tombs update made playing in other areas a bad choice if you wanted equal rewards for effort.

Currently spots which are farmable are nerfed nerfed nerfed till they become worthless to play. Wasn't the game built around the idea of having more content availiable to high level characters? I think the only way this can be truly achieved is to make drops relatively equal in pay off everywhere.

In reference to the casual verse serious farmers... Well bots are bad (wastes bandwith)... KILL THEM ALL! However, people shouldn't be attacked for trying to get items they want or gold they think they need. Cosider this: Would you be in favor of wealth distribution. Once a month A-Net could divide the total gold of all GW's players and evenly redistribute it to the whole current population. hehehe point is - people should get what they work for.

If forming parties becomes a problem because everyone is farming, then the best solution (which still lets rewards = effort) would be to increase the difficulty of the game. Not nerf the drops. LoL How can anyone justify a BETTER drop rate for a BIGGER party size, which should be able to clear an area faster.

Stockholm · Apr 22, 2006, 03:44 AM // 03:44

The ideas are good,
but the majority of players right now is proberbly farmers(pro farmers), we don't see them in missions and quest, but we see them in trading places, if you try to get a group togheter today it's hard (if you look at the amount of players in towns and outposts) so the question is will they drive away the broad base of customers or leave it as it is?

And Hunter you should not belive what you read from Anet about farming policies, I bet they have one official policy and then the corporat one witch is stampd CLASSIFIED. Most Corps. do